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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 4:28 pm 
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bloodredchaos wrote:
Nesquik wrote:
All I know is that Suffocation needs to be higher on the death metal list.


True. Probably somewhere around the CC album.

Are we really down to just 4-5 regular posters now?



Feels more like 3 and 4.

And yea, once we get to 21-30 on black metal you guys are gonna have to make the lists yourselves.

11. Left Hand Path (Entombed)
12. Legion (Deicide)
13. Deicide (Deicide)
14. The Bleeding (Cannibal Corpse)
15. Pierced From Within (Suffocation)
16. Leprosy (Death)
17. Covenant (Morbid Angel)
18. Slowly We Rot (Obituary)
19. Mental Funeral (Autopsy)
20. Horrified (Repulsion)


1. Under The Sign Of The Black Mark (Bathory)
2. Blood Fire Death (Bathory)
3. Hvis Lyset Tar Oss (Burzum)
4. In The Nightside Eclipse (Emperor)
5. De Mysteriis Dom Sathanas (Mayhem)
6. Transylvanian Hunger (Darkthrone)
7. Filosofem (Burzum)
8. Under A Funeral Moon (Darkthrone)
9. Storm of The Light's Bane (Dissection)
10. Pure Holocaust (Immortal)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 7:27 pm 
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bloodredchaos wrote:
The more I think about it the more I realize that it's going to be pretty difficult to rank albums once you go further down with the less mainstream genres.


It'll also be difficult comparing the influence of melodic death metal bands/albums in an entire death metal list. That being said if we are putting them all in the same list, The Jester Race should probably make top 20 seeing as how massive melodeath is and how big an influence it has over the genre.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 10:19 pm 
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I was only going to have each list go to 50 anyways.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:30 pm 
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Well if no one has any further objections, 11-20 of each will be going up. And I'll put Jester Race at 21.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:17 am 
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11-20 are up

Death:

21. The Jester Race (In Flames)
22. World Downfall (Terrorizer)
23. Focus (Cynic)
24. Like An Ever Flowing Stream (Dismember)
25. Morbid Visions (Sepultura)
26. Symbolic (Death)
27. Symphonies of Sickness (Carcass)
28. Nespithe (Demilich)
29. Here In After (Immolation)
30. My Arms, Your Hearse (Opeth)


Black:

You guys are gonna have to do this one on your own.


Last edited by JRA on Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 10:35 am 
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Probably should have Immolation's Here in After. Or maybe CTAWB, but I think that came out too late for it to be considered that important.

Domination is one of the most hated MA albums. I don't think it should make the top 50. Even Heretic takes it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:34 am 
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bloodredchaos wrote:
Probably should have Immolation's Here in After. Or maybe CTAWB, but I think that came out too late for it to be considered that important.

Domination is one of the most hated MA albums. I don't think it should make the top 50. Even Heretic takes it.



a) What about Dawn of Possession?

b) Hated by you maybe. I think it's awesome. Nonetheless, I'll put Immolation in that slot and put Domination later on down the list.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:09 pm 
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Domination doesn't need to be anywhere near this list. Immolation should either be Here in After or (I'd say) Close to a World Below, even though Unholy Cult is easily their best album.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 2:29 pm 
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JRA wrote:
bloodredchaos wrote:
Probably should have Immolation's Here in After. Or maybe CTAWB, but I think that came out too late for it to be considered that important.

Domination is one of the most hated MA albums. I don't think it should make the top 50. Even Heretic takes it.



a) What about Dawn of Possession?

b) Hated by you maybe. I think it's awesome. Nonetheless, I'll put Immolation in that slot and put Domination later on down the list.


Nah. Dawn of Possession is good, but it's pretty much Morbid Angel worship. Here in After isn't their most acclaimed album, but overall it's probably more influential than CTaWB. CTaWB should be obviously be here as well, however. I'd go so far as to say that Immo are more important than Deicide.

The Heretic thing was an exaggeration, but believe me, I'm not the only one who thinks that Domination is mediocre at best. And even if it weren't the case, it still wouldn't deserve to be here. There are hundreds of more important albums. If this list only goes to 50, it definitely should not make it. Just because you listen to like 5 death metal bands, it doesn't mean that their entire discographies are more relevant than stuff you're not familiar with.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:21 pm 
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bloodredchaos wrote:
JRA wrote:
bloodredchaos wrote:
Probably should have Immolation's Here in After. Or maybe CTAWB, but I think that came out too late for it to be considered that important.

Domination is one of the most hated MA albums. I don't think it should make the top 50. Even Heretic takes it.



a) What about Dawn of Possession?

b) Hated by you maybe. I think it's awesome. Nonetheless, I'll put Immolation in that slot and put Domination later on down the list.


Nah. Dawn of Possession is good, but it's pretty much Morbid Angel worship. Here in After isn't their most acclaimed album, but overall it's probably more influential than CTaWB. CTaWB should be obviously be here as well, however. I'd go so far as to say that Immo are more important than Deicide.

The Heretic thing was an exaggeration, but believe me, I'm not the only one who thinks that Domination is mediocre at best. And even if it weren't the case, it still wouldn't deserve to be here. There are hundreds of more important albums. If this list only goes to 50, it definitely should not make it. Just because you listen to like 5 death metal bands, it doesn't mean that their entire discographies are more relevant than stuff you're not familiar with.


I'm not familiar with Obituary, Immolation, Repulsion, Dismember or tons of other bands that will end up on this list, doesn't mean that I don't think they're albums should be on here. For example, I flat out don't like Nile (I've really wanted to love them, but I just can't do it) or Dimmu Borgir. Yet I'm expecting there will be two albums from them on their respective lists. Just about every other "greatest death metal albums" list, from official publications or otherwise, has included Domination, so I didn't think it would be an issue including it here.

Anyways, somebody make a 21-30 for black metal, because I cannot do that myself. Sure I could just put the remaining Bathory, Immortal, and Burzum albums on there, but even I know that would look like shit. :parrot:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 1:48 am 
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The problem is that the most professional publications are usually the most clueless when it comes to metal, and hat's incliding the websites and zines dedicated solely to extreme metal.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 12:50 pm 
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bloodredchaos wrote:
The problem is that the most professional publications are usually the most clueless when it comes to metal, and hat's incliding the websites and zines dedicated solely to extreme metal.


So Choosing Death is clueless? STFU. (and start making a 21-30 for black metal).


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 4:33 pm 
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I was mainly talking about the "greatest X metal lists" you keep telling us about but never naming. I'm not saying that historical information, interviews, sales figures or whatever isn't researched in such publications, but pretty much every "greatest X metal" list is crap, and a lot of them aren't even just "maybe Gorguts is greater than Immolationt" crap, but "Children of Bodom are greater than Atheist" crap . Why do you think I even bother with this site?

If you're talking about Domination's presence in the "essential discography" at the end of the book, then yeah, there are obviously some of the important death metal albums are featured, but there's still a load wrong with it. There are no Gorguts, Asphyx, Demigod, Amorphis or Pestilence albums, and the earliest Incantation album on is from 98. There are others missing, but those are some of the more serious omissions. The Crown, Pig Destroyer, Discordance Axis, Dying Fetus, Soilent Green, Agoraphobic Nosebleed (Yeah, Relapse Records totally didn't pay him a lot of money or anything) and a bunch of other bands mentioned are hardly essential death metal or grindcore. Very little of the post-95 albums on the list are what they should have been. Since when is any post-None So Vile era Cryptopsy deemed "essential"? Yeah, I'll stick with "clueless", thanks. But wait, there's more! Okay Suffocation's Human Waste and Effigy are one there, and then no more Suffo albums until 1997's Despise the Sun. The only Immolation album included is one of their least influential. Grave, but no Carnage or Unleashed. Nasum, but no Rotten Sound (though are are far more important grind bands than either of these two). Awesome source that list is!. I'll give him credit for Pungent Stench's Been Caught Buttering's inclusion, however. Too few people recognize it's greatness. To be fair, even if all of the members of every respected and important death metal band in the world voted for the greatest and most influential death metal albums ever, the list would probably still suck.

As for the actual book, I only skimmed through it once, and it was a good read, but the only reason for that is because a lot of the band members interviewed (Kam Lee, Becerra etc.) interviewed know their shit. If the book was written solely from the author's point of view, it would most likely suck (no surprise that he works for Decibel). Either way, if you think that the book covers everything there is to know about death metal, you're mistaken. I don't even remember Suffocation being mentioned much and I don't think there, and there was too much Napalm Death. Swedish Death Metal is miles better and by and author who actually seems to know his shit.

Domination shouldn't be on the list.

Moving onto the black metal list, the next ten probably should include

Some possibilites:
Bathory - s/t
Burzum - s/t
Impaled Nazarene - Ugra Karma
Gorgoroth - Pentagram
Rotting Christ - Thy Mighty Contract
Samael - Ceremony of Opposites
Summoning - Dol Guldur
Dimmu Borgir - Enthrone Darkness Triumphant
Windir - Arntor
Marduk - Opus Nocturne
Satyricon - Dark Medieval Times
Satyricon - Nemesis Divina

Maybe:
Ildjarn - Forest Poetry
Judas Iscariot - Thy Dying Light
Mutiilation - Vampires of Black Imperial Blood
Abigor - Nachthymnen (From the Twilight Kingdom)
Blasphemy - Fallen Angel of Doom
Helheim - Jormundgand
Tormentor - Anno Domini (should qualify if Bathory does)
Limbonic Art - In Abhorrence Dementia
Samael - Blood Ritual
Kvist - For Kunsten Maa Vi Evig Vike


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:25 pm 
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tl:dr most lists don't include my favorite lesser known bands, therefore they suck! Shut the fuck up! I should put Domination at #50 just to spite your butthurt.

21. Anno Domini (Tormentor)
22. Burzum (Burzum)
23. Enthrone Darkness Triumphant (Dimmu Borgir)
24. Bathory (Bathory)
25. Nemesis Divina (Satyricon)
26. Thy Mighty Contract (Rotting Christ)
27. Arntor (Windir)
28. Dol Guldur (Summoning)
29. Pentagram (Gorgoroth)
30. Ugra Karma (Impaled Nazarene)


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Black/Death Metal Albums (revisions)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:47 pm 
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What butthurt? You're not allowed to criticize something without being "butthurt"? I was merely explaining to you that your "official" source proving Domination's greatness is shit, with enough examples of its shittiness so you don't have to cry "prove it!!!!!!!". Stop with the fucking Decibel related stuff as sources. They suck.

JRA wrote:
tl:dr most lists don't include my favorite lesser known bands, therefore they suck! Shut the fuck up!


:facepalm: If you actually think Soilent Green and The Crown are essential death metal bands, you need to GTFO of this list. None of the bands I mentioned are "lesser known" either, at least not lesser known than some of the stuff already on.


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