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 Post subject: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:03 pm 
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Currently, no one can edit the rap lists due to members like Stereo Williams, JB Trance, and Sampson.

There are a ton of members who look at the lists, and say they're crap; of which, for the most part, I agree.

Who is in favor of a revamp of the lists in this section? Perhaps if enough support is gained, Lew will allow the editing process to start without those three members - for their general info in the knowledge of rap/hip-hop seems to be overvalued and their estimation of most sub-genres and artists within the hip-hop world underestimated.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:05 pm 
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I would like to see these lists revamped.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:20 pm 
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Nice idea!


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:48 am 
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fwiw, i like Sampson a lot and always have. but yeah, not sure who all edits which lists, but certainly most of them need looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 4:45 am 
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pave wrote:
fwiw, i like Sampson a lot and always have. but yeah, not sure who all edits which lists, but certainly most of them need looked at.

I used to be very fond of Sampson and his lists but not so much anymore. Most things he posts nowadays consist of accusing other posters of not being objective and letting their personal taste factor into the lists, then posting bullshit about how The Chi-Lites are greater than The Spinners, using the most subjective reasoning I've ever seen by any of the main editors. The lists by Stereo Williams appear to be a similar affair. I'm in favor of someone else redoing them.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:45 am 
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Chemical Ali wrote:
Currently, no one can edit the rap lists due to members like Stereo Williams, JB Trance, and Sampson.


Lew is the only one with the authority to grant permission to have lists by other editors revamped or to approve of lists being published, although he does consult with Sampson, Brian and I on matters like this.

If you're so dissatisfied that Lew won't hand over the lists, especially those made by Stereo Williams, then leave.

Quote:
There are a ton of members who look at the lists, and say they're crap; of which, for the most part, I agree.


Which for the most part I do not agree.

Quote:
Who is in favor of a revamp of the lists in this section? Perhaps if enough support is gained, Lew will allow the editing process to start without those three members - for their general info in the knowledge of rap/hip-hop seems to be overvalued and their estimation of most sub-genres and artists within the hip-hop world underestimated.


First of all, Stereo Williams edits most of the lists here; take a look at who the list editor is. It isn't that hard:


Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Artists (Stereo Williams)
Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Songs (Stereo Williams)
Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Albums (Chris F.)
Alternative Rap/Hip-Hop Artists (Stereo Williams)
Alternative Rap/Hip-Hop Songs (Piper)
Alternative Rap/Hip-Hop Albums (Stereo Williams)
Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Producers (John West)
Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Lyricists/Emcees (Stereo Williams)
Rap/Hip-Hop Lyrical Performances (Stereo Williams)
Underrated Rap/Hip-Hop Albums (Stereo Williams)
Rap/Hip-Hop Albums of the '90s (R. Thomas)
Top 10 Rap/Hip-Hop Albums 2000-2009 (R. Thomas)
Top 10 Rap/Hip-Hop Albums 1990-1999 (R. Thomas)


Where do you see in this category that Sampson and me are listed as editors?

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for their general info in the knowledge of rap/hip-hop seems to be overvalued and their estimation of most sub-genres and artists within the hip-hop world underestimated.


Please. Show me where our "knowledge of rap/hip-hop seems to be overvalued" and that we underestimate "most sub-genres and artists within the hip-hop world."

If anything, I was a pioneer in making sure all forms and eras of hip-hop were represented when this site started in 2004...the same with R&B, pre-Beatles rock, and other non-"classic rock" forms.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 11:04 am 
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pauldrach wrote:
I used to be very fond of Sampson and his lists but not so much anymore. Most things he posts nowadays consist of accusing other posters of not being objective and letting their personal taste factor into the lists, then posting bullshit about how The Chi-Lites are greater than The Spinners, using the most subjective reasoning I've ever seen by any of the main editors. The lists by Stereo Williams appear to be a similar affair. I'm in favor of someone else redoing them.


I still like Sampson and always have, and he was the most vocal and influential in DDD's early days about getting all sorts of rock music styles represented, in the process turning people to different sounds and got them thinking deeper about rock music in particular. At one point, it seemed that many people were using his name alone as gospel (which wasn't a good thing, however).

He actually made me dig deeper into early rock 'n' roll and rhythm & blues. Chris F. was another pioneer in expanding DDD's music parameters. I as well--I had the first pages devoted to Latin music, electronic music, and gospel music, and I've been instrumental in helping Lew with his lists and other editors as well such as Brian and Brett Alan (e.g. country music, Christmas music, etc.)

But that's not to say that Sampson and I won't disagree here and there. My only major issues with him was his early refusal to look beyond the American reaction to rock music and leaving off artists such as Chubby Checker, and sometimes exaggerating on influence, impact, etc.

BWT, I agree that The Chi-Lites are not greater than The Spinners.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:17 pm 
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J.B. Trance wrote:
Chemical Ali wrote:
Quote:
There are a ton of members who look at the lists, and say they're crap; of which, for the most part, I agree.


Which for the most part I do not agree.


A lot of people who comment on these lists disagree with them and sometimes are just flat-out perplexed by some placements. These disagreements aren't unwarranted because there is a lot wrong with these lists. For example, the albums list hasn't been updates since 2004. What Chem meant by overvalued opinions is that there have been times where a majority of posters have disagreed with placements, but one of the mods came in and said "well I'm the list editor so I'm not changing it" after pages and pages of in-depth discussion. One of the most important parts of being a list editor is listening rather than dismissing.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 5:57 pm 
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Joe C wrote:
A lot of people who comment on these lists disagree with them


Most people are going to disagree regardless; there is no such thing as a completely objective list or a list that is going to satisfy everyone.

Quote:
These disagreements aren't unwarranted because there is a lot wrong with these lists.


I've disagreed with Stereo Williams, in particular, on several occasions, but I don't necessarily say his lists are crap because of that.

Quote:
What Chem meant by overvalued opinions is that there have been times where a majority of posters have disagreed with placements, but one of the mods came in and said "well I'm the list editor so I'm not changing it" after pages and pages of in-depth discussion


The lists in this forum are for the purposes of generating discussion, not for changing them; that is up to the discretion of the editor or Lew.

Additionally, many people don't pay attention to the criteria...as well as just who made the list to begin with.

Quote:
One of the most important parts of being a list editor is listening rather than dismissing.


Not necessarily. See above. There are no rules that an editor even has to partake in a discussion to begin with, let alone sign up and join the forum that 1% of DDD visitors populate.

You have someone like Chemical Ali (R. Thomas), a mod and list editor, complaining about "members like Sampson and J.B. Trance (insert: who don't have lists in this forum)", and yet he has three lists in the hip-hop/rap forum, which doesn't even make any sense whatsoever.

BTW, Lew is not going to let anyone edit Stereo Williams' lists. So there you have it, folks.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 6:59 pm 
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Not all lists are bad, but this in particular is just very dated: "Greatest Rap / Hip-Hop Songs".

I think some members could make an effort and improve the old list. I could help in some way with other members, if Lew was in agreement.

It's just an idea, my intention here is just to improve this list, since it is one of the most viewed on the site :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 8:38 pm 
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Chem does not have any lists in the rap/hip hop forum.

Image

Unless I'm just not seeing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:21 pm 
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Wow, now I really feel like an idiot for repetitously asking for Melle Mel and Kool Moe Dee to be given their due in the lyricists sections.

Yea, revamp the lists with new head editors.


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 10:52 pm 
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JRA wrote:
Wow, now I really feel like an idiot for repetitously asking for Melle Mel and Kool Moe Dee to be given their due in the lyricists sections.

Yea, revamp the lists with new head editors.


I must say, your avitar really evokes someone who likes rap :eyebrow:


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 am 
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Bruce wrote:
JRA wrote:
Wow, now I really feel like an idiot for repetitously asking for Melle Mel and Kool Moe Dee to be given their due in the lyricists sections.

Yea, revamp the lists with new head editors.


I must say, your avitar really evokes someone who likes rap :eyebrow:


Well, he DID rap on national television once. Or at least tried to, with pretty disastrous results: http://www.wwe.com/videos/wwecom-exclus ... f-25049302


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 Post subject: Re: Topic of Conversation: Push for editing the rap lists?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 12:15 am 
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joe c wrote:
Chem does not have any lists in the rap/hip hop forum.


My bad. But here are his lists on the main site:

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_rap-alb-90.html

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_ ... 00-09.html

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_ ... 90-99.html

BTW, each with a criteria that has "quality" in it: "...ranked based on popularity, innovation, and overall quality of music"...one of the major disagreements I had when Stereo Williams used it.


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