Greatest Rap/Hip-Hop Lyricists and MCs

pave · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 2:15 am

J.B. Trance wrote:

32. LL Cool J
33. 2pac
61. Scarface (Geto Boys, Solo)
69. Ice Cube (N.W.A., Westside Connection, solo)
78. Chuck D (Public Enemy)
85. Snoop Dogg

not a big fan of any of these placements. especially the middle 4.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:21 pm **Posts:** 11729

Quote:

why is that not arguable? why couldn't KRS-One be in that group?

I agree actually. I think his stuff with BDP was very important and original. But Nas seems to be worshipped by every hip hop fan here on ddd. They're close either way. Personally I'd RATHER see KRS there myself.

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why is Kool G Rap a lock?

Seriously? This dude was taking everything to the next level. He was one of the very first to explore complex multi-syllable rhyming, and his stature within the pantheon of rap MC'ing is just immense. Everyone was influenced by this guy.

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this is what's happening to Jay Z. he is consistently in the spotlight with every album, every track, etc. every time he has a weak line or verse, we know about it. he's got 15 years of consistent work with only a few breaks. of course he's got some weak stuff in there. but so does everyone, with the only exceptions being emcees who had short careers. the difference is, when Mos Def or Nas puts out something not-so-great (and they both have, in abundance), we just ignore it cause its not in our face or on the radio constantly.

The thing is, though, guys like Mos Def and KRS were much more important to the craft. Of course nobody is saying that Jay is the only rapper with weak material in his catalogue, that would be ridiculous. But the point was that he had potential to be REALLY fuggin' great, but instead he just went more and more mainstream rather than push himself artistically to elevate his style.
That's entirely IMO though.

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Jay is consistently mentioned by other rappers as a top emcee (including Kool G Rap. flow is a huge part of what an emcee does. its not just lyrics. and Jay is the epitome of flow.

I don't think Jay is the epitome of anything, but chalk it up to personal interpretation I guess.

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my biggest gripe with this list is that it focuses way too much on complex rhymes and shows no appreciation of lyrical content or flow. how else could 2Pac be so low? or Chuck D? this has to be the only emcee list in the history of rap to have 2Pac out of the top 10. whatever criteria supports that is a bad criteria.

Now THIS I agree with and I've been saying it for a long time now.
Chuck was soooooo important to the game.

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my opinion (which is always changing)
top 5 candidates: Rakim, Notorious B.I.G., Big Daddy Kane, Nas, Jay Z, 2Pac, KRS-One
top 10 candidates: Kool G Rap, Slick Rick, Andre 3000, Scarface, LL Cool J
rest of the top 20: Eminem, Chuck D, Redman, GZA, Common, Big Pun, Mos Def, Ice Cube

You really think Nas is a greater lyricist than G Rap?

pave · **Posted:** Sat May 05, 2012 4:36 am

what makes Mos Def important to his craft? in terms of wasted potential, he's probably the ultimate example (and i'm a huge fan of his, so i'm not saying this because i dislike him).

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:21 pm **Posts:** 11729

I was referring more to KRS actually, my bad (it's Friday night, bear with me... :lol:

).
Neither Jay-Z or Mos Def are all that important to the development of rap lyrics.

And as for G Rap, it's interesting you mentioned that he praises Jay-Z, because Jay HIMSELF was influenced by G Rap.
And so were Eminem, Nas, Big Pun, and RZA, among others.

beaverteeth92 · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 2:09 pm **Posts:** 1163

Where the hell are any of the Beastie Boys?

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm **Posts:** 620

I agree. Some mention of The Beastie Boys should be on this list, although I think Todd believes that after the 1990s or so they weren't really rap anymore, or something to that effect.

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm **Posts:** 620

Negative Creep wrote:

And as for G Rap, it's interesting you mentioned that he praises Jay-Z, because Jay HIMSELF was influenced by G Rap.
And so were Eminem, Nas, Big Pun, and RZA, among others.

Add to that list The Notorious B.I.G., Ice Cube, Twista, Raekwon (Wu-Tang Clan), Black Thought (The Roots), Havoc (Mobb Deep), etc., etc.

Even Rakim of all MC's praised him. In the rap world, Kool G is simply an MC genius.

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm **Posts:** 620

Speaking of lists, Kool Moe Dee put together a list of 50 of the Greatest MC's:

1. Melle Mel
2. Rakim
3. KRS-One
4. Big Daddy Kane
5. Kool Moe Dee
6. Grandmaster Caz
7. LL Cool J
8. Chuck D
9. Biggie
10. Lauryn Hill
11. Nas
12. Queen Latifah
13. Tupac
14. Kool G Rap
15. Jay-Z
16. Treach
17. Method Man
18. Ice Cube
19. MC Lyte
20. Redman
21. Ras Kass
22. GZA
23. Will Smith
24. Busta Rhymes
25. Heavy D
26. Xzibit
27. Common
28. Pharoahe Monch
29. Black Thought
30. Scarface
31. Kurtis Blow
32. Run
33. Snoop Dogg
34. Guru
35. Ice-T
36. Doug E. Fresh
37. Keith Murray
38. Mystikal
39. Kurupt
40. Slick Rick
41. Big Pun
42. Lil' Kim
43. MC Shan
44. Craig Mack
45. Jeru The Damaja
46. Fat Joe
47. Spoonie Gee
48. Foxy Brown
49. Mack 10
50. Just-Ice

J.B. Trance · **Joined:** Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:04 pm **Posts:** 620

pave wrote:

J.B. Trance wrote:

32. LL Cool J
33. 2pac
61. Scarface (Geto Boys, Solo)
69. Ice Cube (N.W.A., Westside Connection, solo)
78. Chuck D (Public Enemy)
85. Snoop Dogg

not a big fan of any of these placements. especially the middle 4.

Well, when you have broad criterion such as "skill," "innovation," "lasting influence," and especially "originality," don't expect too much, especially when they aren't precisely defined. I think we're all still waiting for Todd's detailed definition of each.

I agree that they could definitely all move up.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:21 pm **Posts:** 11729

J.B. Trance wrote:

Negative Creep wrote:

And as for G Rap, it's interesting you mentioned that he praises Jay-Z, because Jay HIMSELF was influenced by G Rap.
And so were Eminem, Nas, Big Pun, and RZA, among others.

Add to that list The Notorious B.I.G., Ice Cube, Twista, Raekwon (Wu-Tang Clan), Black Thought (The Roots), Havoc (Mobb Deep), etc., etc.

Even Rakim of all MC's praised him. In the rap world, Kool G is simply an MC genius.

Yeah that's humongous praise. Rakim also had enormous praise for Big Daddy Kane as well.

pave · **Posted:** Mon May 21, 2012 12:34 pm

im not questioning why he's a great emcee. im questioning why is he a lock for top 5? Big Daddy Kane, Jay Z, Biggie, Nas, 2Pac, Rakim and KRS-One all ALSO get universally praised (for that matter, Eminem and Andre 3000 are consistently praised by other emcees as well). there can't be 8 emcees in the top 5. and if there are 8 worthy emcees, i can't see how any of them are locks. the only real consensus is that Rakim is at the top. after that, its up in the air for the rest of the top 10.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:21 pm **Posts:** 11729

Well top 5 may have been a SLIGHT overstatement, but it's not that far-fetched.

"Kane and G-Rap were the main ones that really kept me on my toes".
-Rakim

Sampson · **Joined:** Thu Oct 14, 2010 2:35 pm **Posts:** 958

Keep in mind that the context of Rakim's quote was about those he admired and was influenced by, who naturally had to be of his generation or earlier, so guys like Pac, Biggie, Jay-Z, Nas, Cube, Eminem, etc. who came along after that era weren't going to be referenced by him. His praise for Big Daddy Kane and Koo G-Rap though does mean a lot.

Negative Creep · **Joined:** Tue Oct 12, 2010 5:21 pm **Posts:** 11729

Rakim DID praise Eminem though, he actually praised him quite heavily. There's a whole interview on it where he talks about Eminem with nothing but sincere admiration.

Also, why the fuck does Chuck D keep getting the royal screw job? He may not have had ridiculous skill and brilliance with words (like Rakim and Kane), but he was very original and one of the most important lyricists in hip hop.

pave · **Posted:** Wed May 23, 2012 11:32 pm

yeah idk. this list is all fucked up...

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