#29 and #156 (will rise next revision) on the current list.

The Shins should be MUCH higher

I'm not even really a big fan of them but they are popular

I'm not sure the shins should be that much higher though they should move up a bit. Nice to see a bit of discussion on this list btw. Would be cool if some of you guys added some input on my indie pop lists too, they need discussing a bit, but I think we need to make this section more active in general.

A new revision is up

Added: Dinosaur Jr. (#3), The Strokes (#12), The Go-Betweens (#16), Television Personalities (#67)

New in the Top 150 from the 150-200 section: Fleet Foxes (#90), The Pastels (#98), Acid House Kings (#140), The Trash Can Sinatras (#146)

Dramatic change in the Top 25 (thanks Joe). The only change from Joe's list is that i've removed The Pixies (for now) and The Stone Roses. I'd like some discussion on whether or not the Pixies should be on here.

Up (outside of the changes in the Top 25 and the routine numbering changes resulting): The Shins (from 29 to 24), The Wrens (from 97 to 94), Talulah Gosh (106 to 93)

Good move, and great job!

Great update, Piper. just few thoughts though to get a bit of discussion going more than anything:

*Orange Juice seem the biggest omission to me.

*The Cardigans I think are also an omission. They were the ones who allowed the Swedish indie movement to gain popularity in the UK and US. I think Peter, Bjorn and John are way too high too (most of their popularity/acclaim seems to be based largely on one song). Personally I'd put them behind both The Cardigans and Jens Lekman as Swedish indie artists go.

*Morrissey (as a solo artist) should definitely be on here somewhere as well.

*Still unsure as to whether or not to consider Orange Juice for the indie pop list, see you haven't included them here, is that just an oversight or would you not consider them for this list?

*I'm not sure the Trashcan Sinatras should be on here, I have them really low on my indiepop list, unless you know more about them than me, but idk, they always seemed like a very minor band to me?

*I think the Olivia Tremor Control and The Apples in Stereo look too high. I know there is a lot of love for Elephant 6 as a label but as individual artists there seems to be plenty of artists below them who are much more popular/acclaimed/influential.

*The Kooks and Maximo Park seem like a bit of a weak entries, they were minor bands who were big over here for a very short period. I would think the Futureheads are more deserving as recent UK bands go.

*Tiger Trap could be considered toward the end of the list, if you've got 2 Amelia Fletcher bands on here, I think its fair to put Rose Melberg band on too, seeing as they both share very similar fanbases/followers and are often seen as "friendly rivals".

*Are you including slowcore? If so, I would've thought Red house Painters would be on here ahead of Low, Cat Power and Codeine. I also think Low look way too high. American Music Club could also be included being the founders of slowcore.

*Agree with you on not including the Stone Roses and including the Strokes, I would include the Pixies (and have them at #1) myself, but not Slint or the Animal Collective.


Looking forward to the updated greatest indie rock songs list too.

Oh yeah, there's a lot of omissions here. The Cardigans, Red House Painters, Orange Juice, Kaiser Chiefs and The Futureheads are pretty glaring omissions that i'll put on here next revision. All surpass the criteria.

I thought that Orange Juice was already on the list, but it seems they're not. Thanks for pointing that out.

The Trash Can Sinatras were - surprisingly enough - quite successful in the early 90's in the US and had a small clutch of Top 20 appearances on the Billboard Modern Rock chart, and had some influence on American indie pop bands. They're not particular high right now, and they could fall out of the Top 150 again with further additions.

The Kooks really seem to be one of those bands that are more popular in the US than the UK. Their album are consistently strong in the US and they've had 5 Top 40 hits on the Modern Rock chart, more than "bigger" acts like Kaiser Chiefs, Bloc Party and Arctic Monkeys had on the same chart. They have quite a bit of acclaim as well, but not enough to put them in the Top 150 right now.

The indie songs list is kinda not in any condition to be put on the site right now. Its very out of date. I've made some changes to the album list though.

I would dare say Pixies are the Black Sabbath of indie rock, in that they are both "alternative rock" and "indie rock" in the same way that Black Sabbath are "heavy metal" and "hard rock". Pixies definitely influenced indie rock more than alternative rock as a whole. Compare the White Stripes, Radiohead, etc. with Pavement, Modest Mouse, Neutral Milk Hotel, and countless others and then compare the sound of the Pixies to those two groups of bands. They definitely stand apart from other important alternative rock groups of the time (U2, REM, Sonic Youth, The Cure) because of their odd use of guitar and vocals (which in my opinion really define them). But if you compare them to early indie rock like Smiths, Camper Van, Go Betweens, I think the Pixies sound much more like the important early indie bands than the important early alt bands. (I'd argue the same about the Stone Roses but it won't hurt me if they aren't on here).

Galaxie 500 is another I can think of who should probably be on here.

Another Revision

New additions: Pixies (#2), Galaxie 500 (#28), Red House Painters (#37), Orange Juice (#53), Kaiser Chiefs (#71), The Cardigans (#81), The Futureheads (#123)

I'm currently on the fence with including these three artists:

The Beautiful South
Florence + The Machine
The Sugarcubes

All three are easily in the Top 100 if I decide to include them. Any feedback on including them?

I've been on the fence with the Sugarcubes too on the indiepop one, I'm not sure, Bjork obviously shouldn't be here as a solo artist, but I do think those early Sugarcubes records have an indiepop feel to them.

Floarance + the Machine or the Beautiful South I wouldn't really go for.

I'd say Stereolab should be included though. Can't believe I forgot about them.

I don't know about Stereolab at this point. Next big revision - maybe in a couple months - i'll consider, but right now i'm leaning towards no.

Anyway, I added Morrissey at #23 and finished expansion to 200. Tomorrow i'm planning on sending the new revision of this and the albums list to Lew. How does this look?

Cool. Like it. Yeah, I'll probably decide against Stereolab for now too. I'll send mine off to Lew when I've finished with them too. Glad to see this section getting some discussion going again.

Would be cool if we could finish off those top 10/25 artists by subgenres lists too, so we can do shoegaze, dream pop, post-rock, slowcore etc.

Just noticed Piper, Bright Eyes are on here twice at #25 and #31.