Brett Alan wrote:
Classic Rock Junkie wrote:
However, NoM has influence in ONE sub genre and has a bit of cross over and I'm sure in comparison you'd say NoM beats VUGaN based on "It is the biggest rap album dude. Do you know how big rap IS?". It's seriously getting annoying. Alternatively, why isn't Trans-euro express/autobahn in the top 20? It's the most influential album in the whole genre of electronica, which as stated before, is a WAY larger, more popular, and more prolific genre than rap.
You asked elsewhere if there had been a more false statement on the board than the idea that punk only lasted five years. This one certainly is.
There are individual rap artists who have more major hit singles than the entire electronica genre has spawned. Now, you can say that electronica isn't a hit-single oriented genre, but that just points out that something can't be all that popular if it isn't a hit-single oriented genre, since hit singles are all most listeners ever know. And it's not as though electronica is outselling rap even counting only albums. Looking at last year's top-selling albums worldwide:
2. Eminem Recovery 5.6 million
8. Black Eyed Peas The End 3.0 million
26. Drake Thank Me Later 1.4 million
31. Black Eyed Peas The Beginning 1.2 million
37. Kanye West My Beautiful Dark Twisted Fantasy 1.1 million
I don't see anything in the top 40 that remotely qualifies as electronica. I do several other things (Rhianna, Gorillaz) which are clearly influenced by hip-hop. (The list is available at mediatraffic.de and pinpointmusic.com.)
Because hit singles in a few countries are a firm establishment of popularity, right? Metallica has never had a number 1 hit, and Queensryche has, so clearly Queensryche is more popular than Metallica...
So what if rap has a ton of hit singles in a few countries? That doesn't establish anything about worldwide popularity. Some extremely popular electronic artists don't even make albums and sell music strictly online, while others are generally downloaded or obtained outside of albums. Look up the number of electronic artists worldwide, look, if it is even providable, of the most played genres worldwide, played anywhere. Electronica has an undeniable lead. Mariah Carey has more hit singles than The Who and Zeppelin combined, so clearly her popularity is greater than both of theirs combined as well, right? Popularity can't be measured strictly in hit singles, or strictly in album sales either, and if you check worldwide electronica/dance music downloaded and purchased, not a doubt in my mind exists that it far surpasses rap. Nearly every person I know here in Beijing has a massive amount of electronica and dance downloaded, when I check back in the US, it's on par with rap now among college students and teens, with rap having the slight edge. That's on the east coast. Visting San Diego and LA, if you look at the new hit sensation known as 'gloving', and even among many teens and college students, even young adults, the amount of dance found in the area is more prevalent than rap, all the way up to san francisco, with large raves and conventions dedicated to dance music, the number of attendees and songs downloaded rivaling arguably that of rap concerts and performances in the area, which I know, is hard to believe. I mention teens and young adults (up to 30/40), because there are elderly who like metal, techno, and metal, however it's definitely not the norm and you'd be hard pressed to find it outside of certain circles. If you take all of Asia, Europe, and the rest of the world and look at dance music downloaded, bought, and listened to, rap is barely comparable. If you think otherwise, I suggest you start exploring the world and things other than looking at hit singles on the billboard, which mainly deals with the west, as I've never seen number 1 hits in China, which contains roughly 1/8 of the worlds population, topping the billboard top 100. Everything you guys reference is pretty much industry popularity in the west. 5.6 mil worldwide sales? I'd like to see the concentration of that list, as alternatively, I could reference a Japanese J-core artists who has an album with way more than that many downloads. I have no clue why everyone gets so butt-hurt when people start talking about rap for what it is. It is huge, and in it's 'golden years', nearly unbeatable in popularity. But the argument is, something has the maximum everything in that genre, influence, popularity, etc. And due to it's CURRENT POPULARITY, it is ARGUABLY the biggest SINGLE sub-genre, but that does not make it the end all of end alls. In 2005, raps sales had decreased by 44%, a huge number. Luckily there was a revival with some of it's greatest artists pushing out good new material, but does that mean it's as strong as it was? Genres push out new revival albums after dwindling, it shows they are still around and powerful, but it doesn't mean they have 25 years of consistant at the top popularity. If I brought this up in 2007, I'm sure this would be different. We can only see where rap goes, and I hope it continues to soar.
NoM popularity loss to Abbey Road is not enough to compare to NoM's massive influence take? If 17 million vs. 1.5 million is not large enough for you, then I don't know what you consider popular. And abbey road was found to be the most downloaded, and most pirated Beatles album of the last decade, just imagine how much further the numbers go! Checking downloads for NoM however, and sales, pale to Eminems recent album, as you've shown. Yet it's influence on rap is enough to overshadow AR's ungodly massive lead in popularity, and it's reasonable Influence, and unbeatable acclaim, is just being pretentious and a rap fanboy. I love rap. Maybe you guys are right, maybe I'm a purist. Maybe I love rap SO much that I hate to blow it out of proportion to risk not realizing what it truly is. Equally, I love the Beatles more than my own family, and I would rather die then try to compare Paul's guitar abilities to that of Duane Allman. Does that mean I'm not a Beatles fan? Does that mean I'm so against them and not fighting the fans fight? No. It means I love them enough to take them for what they are, and appreciate them for what they are. Same for rap. NoM is one of my favorite albums ever. I like it more than Abbey Road, as Abbey Road is not even one of my favorite Beatles albums (I got sick of it since my family and friends over played it and it was one of the only two albums quite a few of my friends seemed to know). However, if someone tells me influencing the whole of rap is a lead enough to overtake 17 million sales and unfathomable acclaim, that's when I get angry. I lived through NoM's release, I loved it, and I remember getting mad at all the detractors and mediocre reviews and critic complaints about lyrical content and lack of musicality, and I reveled in the massive amount of positive reviews for something fresh with a voice, and complimenting it's rhythmic potency and no holds barred ability. Similarly to when Never Mind the Bollocks was released. Difference is, NoM never hit number 1.
Think what you will, say what you will. I love Rap, and I will fight for it to the death. The most honest love and appreciation in my eyes is to discover exactly what it is you love, and appreciate all of it's greatness and all of it's faults. Maybe it's because I'm jewish, but idolizing a false idol pisses me off more than anything else. Worshipping something as something it's not makes me extremely angry, especially when it's something I love. You are welcome to worship it to that degree on your own, but don't shove your overblown ideals onto me.