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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963. Lasting popularity might be low, since generally albums of that era were taken off the market after a little while, never to return (though after Pulp Fiction it probably has some collector's popularity). But the other areas it does very well. Initial popularity has to account for the era and small label factor and so it's #59 showing on the charts is better than it appears. Influence it cleans up on. The instrumental surf-rock craze begins here, the shredding guitar style, the "wet" sound he came up with, the lyrical description of the surf-culture in Mr. Peppermint Man, all of these things had great influence.


A lot of these points are good, but I can't buy that the instrumental surf-rock craze began two years after the Ventures released "Walk Don't Run".

What would you drop to make room for it?



The Ventures weren't surf rock. Just because they played instrumentals doesn't mean they were the same thing. The Ventures actually hopped on the surf-rock bandwagon later on themselves with a remake of "Walk-Don't Run", called, inventively, "Walk-Don't Run '64", which was the first rock song to hit the Top Ten in two different versions by the same artist.

As for what Dale would replace, I'd assume if the 100th spot was objectively the lowest ranking you'd eliminate that and determine which albums above it Dale does better than and slot it there, dropping the rest each down one.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:17 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Sampson wrote:
Just thought of a missing album, one definitely deserving of a spot in the last 25 or so - Dick Dale's "Surfer's Choice" from 1963.


It's from 1962:

http://books.google.com/books?id=txgEAA ... ce&f=false



Which means it does even BETTER in the criteria, as 1963 was when more rock albums started charting higher, so it being in '62 means its position on the charts was better in context.


It was released in 1962 but charted in 1963.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:05 pm 
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That's better.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 9:08 pm 
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Woah.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:20 pm 
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Sampson wrote:


The Ventures weren't surf rock. Just because they played instrumentals doesn't mean they were the same thing. The Ventures actually hopped on the surf-rock bandwagon later on themselves with a remake of "Walk-Don't Run", called, inventively, "Walk-Don't Run '64", which was the first rock song to hit the Top Ten in two different versions by the same artist.


What makes the original "Walk Don't Run" not surf rock? I've never heard it classified as anything but.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2012 10:24 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Sampson wrote:


The Ventures weren't surf rock. Just because they played instrumentals doesn't mean they were the same thing. The Ventures actually hopped on the surf-rock bandwagon later on themselves with a remake of "Walk-Don't Run", called, inventively, "Walk-Don't Run '64", which was the first rock song to hit the Top Ten in two different versions by the same artist.


What makes the original "Walk Don't Run" not surf rock? I've never heard it classified as anything but.


The original "Walk, Don't Run" was not by the Ventures.

I assume you mean their 1960 version as opposed to their 1964 remake.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 5:25 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:
Sampson wrote:


The Ventures weren't surf rock. Just because they played instrumentals doesn't mean they were the same thing. The Ventures actually hopped on the surf-rock bandwagon later on themselves with a remake of "Walk-Don't Run", called, inventively, "Walk-Don't Run '64", which was the first rock song to hit the Top Ten in two different versions by the same artist.


What makes the original "Walk Don't Run" not surf rock? I've never heard it classified as anything but.


The original "Walk, Don't Run" was not by the Ventures.

I assume you mean their 1960 version as opposed to their 1964 remake.



Yes, exactly. Sorry that wasn't clear. I should have said "earlier".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:53 pm 
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Not to keep nit-picking at the top 10, but I think Van Halen's debut could bump up a notch. It scores VERY high in every criteria, especially impact and influence.
Keep in mind that it wasn't just about Eddie's guitar playing, it was about the overall SOUND of the music. It totally came out of left-field and changed the rules of the game.
It's initial and lasting popularity are both huge as well.

I admit I don't know an awful lot about the Costello album, but it's hard to imagine it beating a colossal juggernaut like VH.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:56 pm 
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VH easily beats the Costello album in popularity, and I think VH also tops it in influence.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:58 am 
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Yeah it was a total landmark.
The whole attitude and spirit of that album was copied SO MUCH throughout the 80's...


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:06 pm 
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I've decided to slide Costello not only behind VH, but behind the Byrds, Boston, and Sabbath as well. All of those do well enough in the other categories that Costello can't make up his deficit in initial popularity.

Now, can I finally send this to Lew? :eh:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:13 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Now, can I finally send this to Lew? :eh:

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 3:18 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
As for what Dale would replace, I'd assume if the 100th spot was objectively the lowest ranking you'd eliminate that and determine which albums above it Dale does better than and slot it there, dropping the rest each down one.


On any good list, there isn't much difference between what's at #100 and what's at the next few positions above it, so it's understandable that Brett would want some input about what would be the best choice to drop.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 5:04 pm 
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Rage Against The Machine sold cassette copies of their demo tape at their live shows before they did their first album. I'm inclined to call that their debut and take their first major-label album off the list. Comments?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Debut Albums
PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 6:49 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Rage Against The Machine sold cassette copies of their demo tape at their live shows before they did their first album. I'm inclined to call that their debut and take their first major-label album off the list. Comments?


No way.


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