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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:07 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
In my opinion, both could be part of top 500. Their acclaim is absurd and both score very well in popularity.


What makes you think that "River Deep" scores well in popularity?

It bombed in the USA and when it's up against all these monster hits, it really looks weak.

I may have overrated it talking about the popularity of "River Deep", though it has bombed in the US, peaked at number 3 in the UK.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:10 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
In my opinion, both could be part of top 500. Their acclaim is absurd and both score very well in popularity.


What makes you think that "River Deep" scores well in popularity?

It bombed in the USA and when it's up against all these monster hits, it really looks weak.

I may have overrated it talking about the popularity of "River Deep", though it has bombed in the US, peaked at number 3 in the UK.


The USA market was 6-7 times bigger than the UK market in 1966.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:15 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
In my opinion, both could be part of top 500. Their acclaim is absurd and both score very well in popularity.


What makes you think that "River Deep" scores well in popularity?

It bombed in the USA and when it's up against all these monster hits, it really looks weak.

I may have overrated it talking about the popularity of "River Deep", though it has bombed in the US, peaked at number 3 in the UK.


The USA market was 6-7 times bigger than the UK market in 1966.

I know.
One question about popularity: What you think about 80/20 split for US/UK? It's fair?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:30 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
And the rest of these are borderline possibilities depending upon what we end up with from the other decades.

41. I Never Loved A Man (The Way I Love You) - Aretha Franklin
42. I've Been Loving You Too Long - Otis Redding
43. Shotgun - Jr. Walker & the All-stars
44. Crimson And Clover - Tommy James & the Shondells
45. Time Of The Season - Zombies
46. River Deep, Mountain High - Ike & Tina Turner


It's very posible that these 6 could all end up making the top 500. It depends what Brian and BA come up with for the 70s, 80s, 90s and beyond. When we look at those candidates we may all feel that these 6 here are more worthy than the stuff in 31-40 range the 70s in the 80s, or than the stuff in the 21-30 range in the 1990s, we'll see.

Personally, I think the 80s look weak. Some of the stuff that is ranked near the top of the site's 80s decade list....

5. I Love Rock 'N' Roll - Joan Jett & The Blackhearts
6. Don't You Want Me? - The Human League
7. Tainted Love - Soft Cell
8. Like a Virgin - Madonna
11. Sweet Dreams - Eurythmics
12. Sweet Child O' Mine - Guns N' Roses
13. Call Me - Blondie
20. Girls Just Want To Have Fun - Cyndi Lauper

....does not seem as significant to me as the top 20 stuff in the other decades. We listed them on this list, but it seems to me that a couple of these ended up too high on the top 300 as we tried to keep with Trance's rankings.

And some of the stuff that is highest on the 80s list but not yet on this list...

25. Purple Rain - Prince
26. Physical - Olivia Newton-John
34. Fast Car - Tracy Chapman
35. Pour Some Sugar On Me - Def Leppard
36. Flashdance...What a Feeling - Irene Cara
41. Kiss - Prince
44. 1999 - Prince
45. Rock the Casbah - The Clash
46. Hungry Like the Wolf - Duran Duran
47. In the Air Tonight - Phil Collins
48. Careless Whisper - Wham! feat. George Michael
49. Take On Me - A-Ha
50. Start Me Up - Rolling Stones
51. Our Lips Are Sealed - Go-Go's

does not seem to me to measure up to the other decades either. I can see us maybe only taking 25-30 or so from the 1980s, we'll see what Brian and BA think, right now we're estimating about 40 from the 1980s.

Maybe Trance missed some important things when he did the 1980s list. I know he left "Little Red Corvette" off the top 100.

I don't see something like "Pour Some Sugar On Me" as being in the league of things like "California Girls" and "Hit The Road Jack" but maybe that's just my lesser awareness of the more modern stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:34 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
What you think about 80/20 split for US/UK? It's fair?


It''s close enough, but going strictly by math based on today's numbers....

USA - 314 million
UK - 62 million

It should be 84/16, which would make it much more difficult to process than nice round numbers that reduce to 4/1. It should really be 5/1.

If we ad in Ireland with the UK it becomes...

USA - 314 million
UK - 67 million

which would be 82/18, or about 9/2

But 4/1 is okay because the UK can also represent Canada and Australia, whose charts were similar on the stuff involved here in those years.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:45 pm 
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Actually, Trance's list doesn't count acclaim in criteria. Because of this, the list of 80s can seems "weak" when compared to the other.
Maybe Brett could make some changes, like he did with "Little Red Corvette".


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:46 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
But 4/1 is okay because the UK can also represent Canada and Australia, whose charts were similar on the stuff involved here in those years.

I think the same.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Actually, Trance's list doesn't count acclaim in criteria. Because of this, the list of 80s can seems "weak" when compared to the other.


I'm not so sure that is the problem. Let's see what the most acclaimed stuff of the 80s is.

here's the things that are highly acclaimed but not on Trance's 80s list:

This Charming Man - Smiths
Ghost Town - Specials
Little Red Corvette - Prince
Bring The Noise - Public Enemy
Teen Age Riot - Sonic Youth
Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2
Fools Gold - Stone Roses

"Corvette" is already in the top 300. Which of these do you think belongs in the 301-500 expansion?


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:32 pm 
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I just think it's more of a case of the 1980s being a weaker decade for significant songs that do well in our criteria. Much of the most acclaimed stuff was not that popular, and vice versa.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:43 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Actually, Trance's list doesn't count acclaim in criteria. Because of this, the list of 80s can seems "weak" when compared to the other.


I'm not so sure that is the problem. Let's see what the most acclaimed stuff of the 80s is.

here's the things that are highly acclaimed but not on Trance's 80s list:

This Charming Man - Smiths
Ghost Town - Specials
Little Red Corvette - Prince
Bring The Noise - Public Enemy
Teen Age Riot - Sonic Youth
Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2
Fools Gold - Stone Roses

"Corvette" is already in the top 300. Which of these do you think belongs in the 301-500 expansion?

Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:46 pm 
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Lew need to change the name of this list on the mainsite. "100 Greatest Songs ... " to 300.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:48 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Actually, Trance's list doesn't count acclaim in criteria. Because of this, the list of 80s can seems "weak" when compared to the other.


I'm not so sure that is the problem. Let's see what the most acclaimed stuff of the 80s is.

here's the things that are highly acclaimed but not on Trance's 80s list:

This Charming Man - Smiths
Ghost Town - Specials
Little Red Corvette - Prince
Bring The Noise - Public Enemy
Teen Age Riot - Sonic Youth
Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2
Fools Gold - Stone Roses

"Corvette" is already in the top 300. Which of these do you think belongs in the 301-500 expansion?

Sunday Bloody Sunday - U2


I'd say that and the PE song. But not those other alternative things. In fact, if a Smiths is gonna make it I'd say it would be "How Soon Is Now."


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:55 pm 
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Yep.
"Sunday ..", then "Bring The Noise". But there are several songs from the 80s that may come sooner than the second.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:59 am 
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This is a good job too:

http://digitaldreamdoor.com/pages/best_ ... 000-1.html


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Songs
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:02 am 
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Bruno wrote:


There's only 13 Beatles songs that every rock fan should know?

That's a thousand song list. We'll have more Beatles than that on our top 500 list, probably like 18 including items where they have the second version (Money, Rock And Roll Music).


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