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 Post subject: 100 Greatest Rock Individuals
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Criteria: This list joins the greatest individuals of rock including the greatest performers and the greatest non-performers. They will be ranked upon their influence, musical, and commercial impact towards rock 'n' roll history.

Performers and non-performers will be ranked separately.

Influence:
- (To innovate the starting point of a new style or method in rock and their cultural influence on slang, fashion, style, etc. )
Musical Impact/Acclaim:
- (The amount individual's admiration in all areas.)
Commercial Impact:
- (The impact the individual had in popular culture such as high charting positions, radio plays, #1 hits, #1 albums, and record sales.)

* = R.I.P.

Greatest Performers:

1. Elvis Presley*
2. Bob Dylan
3. Stevie Wonder
4. Ray Charles*
5. James Brown*
6. John Lennon* - (The Beatles, solo)
7. Paul McCartney - (The Beatles, solo)
8. Aretha Franklin
9. Michael Jackson* - (Jackson 5, solo)
10. Madonna
11. Chuck Berry
12. Prince
13. Brian Wilson - (The Beach Boys, solo)
14. Bruce Springsteen
15. Mick Jagger - (The Rolling Stones)
16. Marvin Gaye*
17. Sam Cooke*
18. Pete Townshend - (The Who, solo)
19. Fats Domino
20. Little Richard


Greatest Non-Performers:

Non performers are ranked for their popularity, impact and overall importance and innovation to rock n' roll.

1. Sam Phillips*
2. Berry Gordy
3. Alan Freed*
4. Jerry Wexler*
5. Ahmet Ertegun*
6. George Martin
7. Dick Clark
8. Ralph Bass*
9. Phil Spector
10. Mike Stoller


Last edited by Bones on Sat Jun 08, 2013 7:59 am, edited 111 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 4:58 pm 
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Any opinions?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
Any opinions?


Yes.

It's a stupid idea.

Half the people in your top ten did not become famous as part of a band.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 6:31 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Rock N Herbs wrote:
Any opinions?


Yes.

It's a stupid idea.

Half the people in your top ten did not become famous as part of a band.


If you read the criteria correctly, I stated
Quote:
"the greatest solo artists and artists that became famous in a band for playing a certain role."


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:49 pm 
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OK, Herbs, let me put it this way.

I can see that you're making a real effort to be part of DDD, and you're trying to get lists onto the site. But you're trying to do too much, too soon. What you're proposing would be one of the major lists on the site. I don't think you're ready for that, and I don't think people would be prepared to put that responsibility in your hands.

Focus on the lists you're already working on. You're taking a lot of input from others, and that's good. Learn from them. At the same time, read more of the conversations (past and present) about other people's lists with an open mind. You can certainly add your comments when you have them, but you also need to observe what the editors are doing. Look at how people back up their positions and how the editors respond to this. In particular, look at the *specific* criteria they lay out and how they discuss those criteria, because that's an area where I think you have had some trouble. Just as an example: I'm still unclear, on some of those hard rock lists, whether acclaim should encompass general acclaim, or just acclaim within the hard rock world. And I don't think you ever really explained how you were defining impact.

I think those lists have potential, and may be worthy of putting up on the site eventually. But if you try to launch more lists, especially something with a wide scope like this, before you get those nailed down, I don't think it's going to work.

I'm not speaking for Lew or in any official capacity, but I'm someone who is established as a moderator and an editor here. If you've gotten advice from other people who are similarly situated, I would urge you to take it seriously as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:52 pm 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
Criteria: This list is based on the greatest solo artists and artists that became famous in a band for playing a certain role. Artists that helped impact a band's career or gained individual fame in a band will be highly considered. The criteria is based on influence and individual success/impact.

1. Elvis Presley
2. James Brown
3. Bob Dylan
4. Michael Jackson
5. Chuck Berry
6. Jimi Hendrix
7. Little Richard
8. Aretha Franklin
9. Fats Domino
10. Stevie Wonder


So, none of the Beatles makes the top ten?


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:54 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
OK, Herbs, let me put it this way.

I can see that you're making a real effort to be part of DDD, and you're trying to get lists onto the site. But you're trying to do too much, too soon. What you're proposing would be one of the major lists on the site. I don't think you're ready for that, and I don't think people would be prepared to put that responsibility in your hands.

Focus on the lists you're already working on. You're taking a lot of input from others, and that's good. Learn from them. At the same time, read more of the conversations (past and present) about other people's lists with an open mind. You can certainly add your comments when you have them, but you also need to observe what the editors are doing. Look at how people back up their positions and how the editors respond to this. In particular, look at the *specific* criteria they lay out and how they discuss those criteria, because that's an area where I think you have had some trouble. Just as an example: I'm still unclear, on some of those hard rock lists, whether acclaim should encompass general acclaim, or just acclaim within the hard rock world. And I don't think you ever really explained how you were defining impact.

I think those lists have potential, and may be worthy of putting up on the site eventually. But if you try to launch more lists, especially something with a wide scope like this, before you get those nailed down, I don't think it's going to work.

I'm not speaking for Lew or in any official capacity, but I'm someone who is established as a moderator and an editor here. If you've gotten advice from other people who are similarly situated, I would urge you to take it seriously as well.


Good advice here. Better to do a great job on completing one solid list than to try and work on dozens of lists at the same time.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:31 am 
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how is this different than the Artists list? other than getting rid of bands?


i guess when i see the word "musician", i think of it as being separate of songwriting. i think of it more like its used in jazz. so its weird to me to see guys like Bob Dylan or really just about anyone on this list other than Hendrix. most of who are notable because of their songwriting talent, band-leading and charisma as performers. when i hear the word "musician", i think of guys like Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Little Walter, Ricky Skaggs, etc. guys who find their artistic voice through instrumental improvisation, not songwriting craft.

i think a list like that would be an interesting counterpoint to the songwriters list. although it would be harder than a jazz musician list because so much of rock music is focused on the songwriting and their is a serious lack of lead musicians outside of guitar and vocals.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:33 am 
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Bruce wrote:
Rock N Herbs wrote:
Criteria: This list is based on the greatest solo artists and artists that became famous in a band for playing a certain role. Artists that helped impact a band's career or gained individual fame in a band will be highly considered. The criteria is based on influence and individual success/impact.

1. Elvis Presley
2. James Brown
3. Bob Dylan
4. Michael Jackson
5. Chuck Berry
6. Jimi Hendrix
7. Little Richard
8. Aretha Franklin
9. Fats Domino
10. Stevie Wonder


So, none of the Beatles makes the top ten?


I would recommend either of them having as much of an individual impact as these artists currently listed. They obviously gained their fame as a band together.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:34 am 
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pave wrote:
how is this different than the Artists list? other than getting rid of bands?


i guess when i see the word "musician", i think of it as being separate of songwriting. i think of it more like its used in jazz. so its weird to me to see guys like Bob Dylan or really just about anyone on this list other than Hendrix. most of who are notable because of their songwriting talent, band-leading and charisma as performers. when i hear the word "musician", i think of guys like Miles Davis, Eric Dolphy, Jimi Hendrix, Jeff Beck, Little Walter, Ricky Skaggs, etc. guys who find their artistic voice through instrumental improvisation, not songwriting craft.

i think a list like that would be an interesting counterpoint to the songwriters list. although it would be harder than a jazz musician list because so much of rock music is focused on the songwriting and their is a serious lack of lead musicians outside of guitar and vocals.


I didn't list songwriting in the criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 4:35 am 
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of course, its obvious Ringo's contributions were every bit as important as Paul's. i mean, where else would they get someone who could drum with both hands and kick, all in rhythm? dude was amazing.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:36 am 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:16 pm 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
pave wrote:
how is this different than the Artists list? other than getting rid of bands?


i guess when i see the word "musician", i think of it as being separate of songwriting.


I didn't list songwriting in the criteria.


Then how do you justify Bob Dylan being number 3? If you're not considering songwriting, I can't see him being anywhere near that high.

Rock N Herbs wrote:
Bruce wrote:
So, none of the Beatles makes the top ten?


I would recommend either of them having as much of an individual impact as these artists currently listed. They obviously gained their fame as a band together.


I have no idea what you mean. Are you saying they do belong in the top ten, or they don't? (And by "either of them" do you mean John and Paul?)


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:28 pm 
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Rock N Herbs wrote:
Any opinions?


Pete Townshend #1.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Rock Musicians
PostPosted: Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:14 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Rock N Herbs wrote:
pave wrote:
how is this different than the Artists list? other than getting rid of bands?


i guess when i see the word "musician", i think of it as being separate of songwriting.


I didn't list songwriting in the criteria.


Then how do you justify Bob Dylan being number 3? If you're not considering songwriting, I can't see him being anywhere near that high.

Rock N Herbs wrote:
Bruce wrote:
So, none of the Beatles makes the top ten?


I would recommend either of them having as much of an individual impact as these artists currently listed. They obviously gained their fame as a band together.


I have no idea what you mean. Are you saying they do belong in the top ten, or they don't? (And by "either of them" do you mean John and Paul?)


Well songwriting is what made Bob Dylan what he is today. He changed the act of songwriting in a way which is a huge individual impact. And If any of the Beatles where to come first it would be John. IMO.


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