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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:25 pm 
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Posts: 66
Bruno wrote:
1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. Michael Jackson
4. Madonna
5. Elton John
6. Queen
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Led Zeppelin
9. ABBA
10. Stevie Wonder/James Brown

Queen was more popular than Zeppelin?

And this is probably the most objective top 10:

1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. James Brown
4. Bob Dylan
5. The Rolling Stones
6. Led Zeppelin
7. Chuck Berry
8. The Who
9. Jimi Hendrix
10. Stevie Wonder


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:28 pm 
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ZepHead wrote:
Bruno wrote:
1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. Michael Jackson
4. Madonna
5. Elton John
6. Queen
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Led Zeppelin
9. ABBA
10. Stevie Wonder/James Brown

Queen was more popular than Zeppelin?


Worldwide it's close, they both sold about 300 million records.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be ... ic_artists


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:29 pm 
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Posts: 66
Bruce wrote:
ZepHead wrote:
Bruno wrote:
1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. Michael Jackson
4. Madonna
5. Elton John
6. Queen
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Led Zeppelin
9. ABBA
10. Stevie Wonder/James Brown

Queen was more popular than Zeppelin?


Worldwide it's close, they both sold about 300 million records.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be ... ic_artists

Zep still has a slight edge on Queen.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:32 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Compared with some artists that I put in honorable mentions, Queen and ABBA may lose the charts, but they take advantage of sales worldwide.


Apparently you're not getting what Brian is saying.

Right or wrong, he DOES NOT consider worldwide sales AT ALL when he determines the popularity portion of the criteria. It is based ONLY on the artist's popularity the USA and the UK and the split is 80/20.

I get it, the criteria says:

Quote:
Charted singles and albums
It also includes sales figures
It is based on roughly a 80/20 split for US/UK. In cases where an artist undeniably has a very high level of worldwide popularity, that can be used as a tiebreaker.


But like the others, this part of the criteria is quite complicated, especially when comparing names with similar popularity.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:22 pm 
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Bruce wrote:
ZepHead wrote:
Bruno wrote:
1. The Beatles
2. Elvis Presley
3. Michael Jackson
4. Madonna
5. Elton John
6. Queen
7. The Rolling Stones
8. Led Zeppelin
9. ABBA
10. Stevie Wonder/James Brown

Queen was more popular than Zeppelin?


Worldwide it's close, they both sold about 300 million records.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_be ... ic_artists


That 300 million for Led Zeppelin is bullshit that originated on Wikipedia. I watched it happen. I'm sure it's bullshit for Queen, too.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:38 am 
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Posts: 789


And I guess Zeppelin are close to that ( they sold 111.5 just in the US).


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:13 am 
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you have to understand that Led Zeppelin didn't sell nearly the amount of records we think they did, and The Who sold way more than we think they did. why would ClashWho distort this? if we can't trust him on this subject, we can't trust anyone.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:22 am 
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pave wrote:
you have to understand that Led Zeppelin didn't sell nearly the amount of records we think they did, and The Who sold way more than we think they did. why would ClashWho distort this? if we can't trust him on this subject, we can't trust anyone.


Actually, I think the claim of 100 million records sold for The Who, reported by the New York Times, is also bullshit. As in too high.

But I know for a fact that the 300 million for Led Zeppelin is bullshit. I literally watched it happen. It was added to Wikipedia without attribution by a known vandal, remained in the article unchallenged for months, was subsequently picked up by news organizations like CNN, and then those news organizations were used to cite the initial Wikipedia claim. While this was happening, Atlantic Records itself was claiming 200 million albums sold for Led Zeppelin.

That's why Led Zeppelin's article mentions both figures. Everyone knows what happened, but there's nothing that can be done about it. It's not like CNN is going to retract their 300 million statement and say, "Sorry, we used Wikipedia as the source for that because we're horrible and lazy excuses for journalists."


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:24 am 
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Location: New Jersey
pave wrote:
you have to understand that Led Zeppelin didn't sell nearly the amount of records we think they did, and The Who sold way more than we think they did. why would ClashWho distort this? if we can't trust him on this subject, we can't trust anyone.


ROFL.....Clash is the LAST person we should trust on facts that would make the Who look better than Zep. He has a horse in THAT race.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:28 am 
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Bruce wrote:
pave wrote:
you have to understand that Led Zeppelin didn't sell nearly the amount of records we think they did, and The Who sold way more than we think they did. why would ClashWho distort this? if we can't trust him on this subject, we can't trust anyone.


ROFL.....Clash is the LAST person we should trust on facts that would make the Who look better than Zep. He has a horse in THAT race.




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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:37 pm 
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:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:40 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Brian wrote:
Remember that I'm using an 80% US 20% UK basis for popularity, so on that basis, neither Queen nor ABBA would be in the top 10. And The Beach Boys would at least make honorable mention for popularity.

You're right about Beach Boys, I'll include them in the honorable mentions, thanks.
About Queen and ABBA, I dont know ... Even on that basis, I think they can fight for a spot in the top 10.

Queen:
Estimates of their album sales generally range from 150 million to 300 million albums.
All-time total weeks on chart in UK: 402
6 number one in UK
Billboard Hot 100: 34 Songs

ABBA:
Estimates of their album sales generally range from 200 million to 300 million albums.
9 number one in UK
All-time total weeks on chart in UK: 260
Billboard Hot 100: 20 Songs

Compared with some artists that I put in honorable mentions, Queen and ABBA may lose the charts, but they take advantage of sales worldwide.
By the way, who do you think of replacing them?


Not sure who would replace them, but there are several who I'd put ahead of them in popularity:
Mariah, Whitney, Janet, Aretha, The Beach Boys, Prince. I'd at least add Prince to honorable mention. Also, I'd say Stevie beats JB in popularity.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:43 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Compared with some artists that I put in honorable mentions, Queen and ABBA may lose the charts, but they take advantage of sales worldwide.


Apparently you're not getting what Brian is saying.

Right or wrong, he DOES NOT consider worldwide sales AT ALL when he determines the popularity portion of the criteria. It is based ONLY on the artist's popularity the USA and the UK and the split is 80/20.

I get it, the criteria says:

Quote:
Charted singles and albums
It also includes sales figures
It is based on roughly a 80/20 split for US/UK. In cases where an artist undeniably has a very high level of worldwide popularity, that can be used as a tiebreaker.


But like the others, this part of the criteria is quite complicated, especially when comparing names with similar popularity.


As a tiebreaker yes, but since based on the 80/20 US/UK split, other artists definitely beat Queen and ABBA in popularity, the tiebreaker doesn't come into play.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:34 pm 
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Posts: 28804
D.J. wrote:


Hey, look, it's a Wikipedia reader.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:26 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2011 7:00 am
Posts: 2089
Brian wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Bruce wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Compared with some artists that I put in honorable mentions, Queen and ABBA may lose the charts, but they take advantage of sales worldwide.


Apparently you're not getting what Brian is saying.

Right or wrong, he DOES NOT consider worldwide sales AT ALL when he determines the popularity portion of the criteria. It is based ONLY on the artist's popularity the USA and the UK and the split is 80/20.

I get it, the criteria says:

Quote:
Charted singles and albums
It also includes sales figures
It is based on roughly a 80/20 split for US/UK. In cases where an artist undeniably has a very high level of worldwide popularity, that can be used as a tiebreaker.


But like the others, this part of the criteria is quite complicated, especially when comparing names with similar popularity.


As a tiebreaker yes, but since based on the 80/20 US/UK split, other artists definitely beat Queen and ABBA in popularity, the tiebreaker doesn't come into play.

You're right, it was clearly regarded the whole world, both could be in the top 10. I'm trying to think what names could make a top 20. Prince can also be considered. If we do a top 20 of each criteria, would be easier to rearrange the top of the list. Well, it's just a suggestion.


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