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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:28 pm 
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Also:
Cameron Crowe wrote:
Once introducing himself to Bob Dylan at an L.A. party, Grant offered a warm handshake. "I'm Peter Grant, manager of Led Zeppelin," he said. Dylan replied, "I don't come to you with my problems, do I?" It was the only time I'd ever seen Grant at a loss for words.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 2:53 pm 
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Or this:

"Every musician wants to do something of lasting quality, something which will hold up for a long time and I guess we did it with 'Stairway.' Townshend probably thought that he got it with Tommy." - Jimmy Page link

Of all the things Jimmy Page could compare the lasting quality of "Stairway to Heaven" to and the first and only example he comes up with is Tommy.

Meanwhile, even in Time-Life's History of Rock 'n' Roll television series, when they finally get to Led Zeppelin, they have to balance the praise:

"I remember listening to the first Zeppelin album; it was such a great breath of fresh air." - Ozzy Osboure

with the criticism:

"I haven't liked a single thing that they've done. I hate the fact that I'm ever even slightly compared to them." - Pete Townshend


Last edited by ClashWho on Sat Jun 09, 2012 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:37 pm 
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pauldrach wrote:
Also:
Cameron Crowe wrote:
Once introducing himself to Bob Dylan at an L.A. party, Grant offered a warm handshake. "I'm Peter Grant, manager of Led Zeppelin," he said. Dylan replied, "I don't come to you with my problems, do I?" It was the only time I'd ever seen Grant at a loss for words.


Great story, although I wonder whether Dylan was thinking more of their incorrigible personalities than their music. Then again, who ever knows what Dylan means by anything?

As much as I'm not looking forward to more pages of Clash's quote file, I do think he's right. When you look at the the early singles, Tommy, Who's Next, Live At Leeds, and so on, that's a whole lot of musical impact. I think they clearly beat Zep in that category.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:42 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Negative Creep wrote:
So who do you think beats him in musical impact besides The Beatles, Elvis and Brown?
Madonna? LOL...

Bob Dylan
The Rolling Stones
Stevie Wonder
The Beach Boys

And tied with Jackson, Aretha, Ray, Zepp. 


Oh, come on. Led Zeppelin do not beat The Who in musical impact. Especially since it's defined primarily as reaction to your work soon after its release.


I would put they in the next tier, along with Jimi Hendrix, Bruce Springsteen, Pink Floyd and Marvin Gaye.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:51 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
As much as I'm not looking forward to more pages of Clash's quote file, I do think he's right. When you look at the the early singles, Tommy, Who's Next, Live At Leeds, and so on, that's a whole lot of musical impact. I think they clearly beat Zep in that category.

Well, if so ... Zep has Led Zeppelin II, Led Zeppelin IV, Led Zeppelin I and Physical Graffiti.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 4:59 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:
As much as I'm not looking forward to more pages of Clash's quote file, I do think he's right. When you look at the the early singles, Tommy, Who's Next, Live At Leeds, and so on, that's a whole lot of musical impact. I think they clearly beat Zep in that category.

Well, if so ... Zep has Led Zeppelin II, Led Zeppelin IV, Led Zeppelin I and Physical Graffiti.


I think only IV is really in the same league. The others are close, but not quite on the same level.

Also, there's a lot more difference between those Who albums. What Tommy did was very different from what Live At Leeds did, and you also had those early singles which were still another thing. I think that makes for a bigger impact.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:13 pm 
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Brett Alan wrote:
Bruno wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:
As much as I'm not looking forward to more pages of Clash's quote file, I do think he's right. When you look at the the early singles, Tommy, Who's Next, Live At Leeds, and so on, that's a whole lot of musical impact. I think they clearly beat Zep in that category.

Well, if so ... Zep has Led Zeppelin II, Led Zeppelin IV, Led Zeppelin I and Physical Graffiti.


I think only IV is really in the same league. The others are close, but not quite on the same level.

In the current list of site they are close:

21. Who's Next (1971) - The Who
22. Led Zeppelin II (1969) - Led Zeppelin

23. Songs In The Key Of Life (1976) - Stevie Wonder
24. The Joshua Tree (1987) - U2
25. Rumours (1977) - Fleetwood Mac
26. The Beatles (The White Album) (1968) - The Beatles
27. I Never Loved A Man the Way I Love You (1967) - Aretha Franklin
28. Modern Sounds in Country and Western Music (1962) - Ray Charles
29. Blue (1971) - Joni Mitchell
30. Tapestry (1971) - Carole King
31. Raising Hell (1986) - Run-D.M.C.
32. Tommy (1969) - The Who
33. Led Zeppelin IV (1971) - Led Zeppelin

34. The Velvet Underground & Nico (1967) - The Velvet Underground
35. Appetite For Destruction (1987) - Guns N Roses
36. Paranoid (1970) - Black Sabbath
37. There's A Riot Goin' On (1971) - Sly & The Family Stone
38. Ziggy Stardust (1972) - David Bowie
39. Let It Bleed (1969) - The Rolling Stones
40. Bringing It All Back Home (1965) - Bob Dylan
41. Goodbye Yellow Brick Road (1973) - Elton John
42. Saturday Night Fever Soundtrack (1977) - Various Artists
43. Ten (1991) - Pearl Jam
44. Led Zeppelin I (1969) - Led Zeppelin
.
.
.
95. Live At Leeds (1970) - The Who


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:18 pm 
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Bruno wrote:
Brett Alan wrote:

I think only IV is really in the same league. The others are close, but not quite on the same level.

In the current list of site they are close:


Well, that's not just in musical impact. But I think that ranking for Led Zeppelin II is ridiculous.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 10:55 pm 
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Since musical impact is the one criterion which ought to be most balanced across eras, I think it's doubtful either the Who or Led Zeppelin rank in the top 20 in musical impact. Even if you parse things to their advantage, like counting just musical impact from 1965-1973 for the Who, or 69-75 for Zeppelin, they still don't rank #1 among all artists over those periods. When you then account for 65 years of Rock, how can we presume either are in the top 20?

I know that over the 1955-67 period rock artists were more unified in a single community, so artists from that period might seem to get more than their fair share of spots, but I think these lists being posted go too far in that regard. There are plenty of artists with large crossover recognition since the early 70s. It's Baby Boomer Bias. (I'm guessing Sampson would attribute it to Rolling Stone magazine.)

Prince, Public Enemy, Eminem and Jay-Z are four names that immediately come to mind as more deserving for top 20 considerations in the musical impact category.

Furthermore, all of that hate for Zeppelin should count in their favor. That stuff doesn't read like vocal indifference to me; it sounds like Zeppelin were a burr in the saddle of other musicians, and I don't know how that could possibly be interpreted as a negative. Their music had an impact on other musicians. They received recognition from their peers. That's what the category is for. This is Rock'n'Roll; new music is SUPPOSED to rub the establishment the wrong way.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:27 pm 
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Eric Wood wrote:
Prince, Public Enemy, Eminem and Jay-Z are four names that immediately come to mind as more deserving for top 20 considerations in the musical impact category.



I don't see that at all, especially for PE. In those days there were still many more musicians who hated rap then those who respected it. I would think that there were loads of white guitar oriented musicians who never even heard a PE song during their heydey.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:35 am 
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Eric Wood wrote:
Furthermore, all of that hate for Zeppelin should count in their favor. That stuff doesn't read like vocal indifference to me; it sounds like Zeppelin were a burr in the saddle of other musicians, and I don't know how that could possibly be interpreted as a negative. Their music had an impact on other musicians. They received recognition from their peers. That's what the category is for. This is Rock'n'Roll; new music is SUPPOSED to rub the establishment the wrong way.


I fully support this.
That's a big part of what makes Elvis #1 in musical impact overall, imo.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:37 pm 
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I agree. Negative criticisim is still impact. For example, Punk music and the Sex Pistols were hated when they showed up (and still are hated by many). But you can't say they don't have impact or something. Everyone hated Elvis when he became famous, Ray charles got a lot of criticism for using "using religious music to worship satan" or something, Elvis hated the Beatles when they came, people hated grunge, etc,etc,etc. That's probably the biggest kind of impact and it's almost the definition of Rock&Roll


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Eric Wood wrote:
Since musical impact is the one criterion which ought to be most balanced across eras, I think it's doubtful either the Who or Led Zeppelin rank in the top 20 in musical impact. Even if you parse things to their advantage, like counting just musical impact from 1965-1973 for the Who, or 69-75 for Zeppelin, they still don't rank #1 among all artists over those periods. When you then account for 65 years of Rock, how can we presume either are in the top 20?


Until you come up with twenty names convincingly superior in musical impact, I'll presume it quite easily.

Eric Wood wrote:
I know that over the 1955-67 period rock artists were more unified in a single community, so artists from that period might seem to get more than their fair share of spots, but I think these lists being posted go too far in that regard. There are plenty of artists with large crossover recognition since the early 70s. It's Baby Boomer Bias.


I'm Generation X. Most on this website are Generation X and Generation Y.

Eric Wood wrote:
Prince, Public Enemy, Eminem and Jay-Z are four names that immediately come to mind as more deserving for top 20 considerations in the musical impact category.


Sixteen to go. But I will note that all of those artists' achievements are far more recent than either The Who's or Led Zeppelin's, so they are fresher in your mind. And I'll also say that thinking Public Enemy in particular has more musical impact than either The Who or Led Zeppelin is ridiculous. Have you forgotten what those two bands achieved in their day? The musical impact of Keith Moon and John Bonham alone is gigantic, and those are just the drummers!

Eric Wood wrote:
Furthermore, all of that hate for Zeppelin should count in their favor.


:lol: Now I've heard everything. Musical Impact is about PRAISE, RESPECT, REVERENCE. It is not about thinking an artist is crap.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 12:44 pm 
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Johnny wrote:
I agree. Negative criticisim is still impact. For example, Punk music and the Sex Pistols were hated when they showed up (and still are hated by many). But you can't say they don't have impact or something. Everyone hated Elvis when he became famous, Ray charles got a lot of criticism for using "using religious music to worship satan" or something, Elvis hated the Beatles when they came, people hated grunge, etc,etc,etc. That's probably the biggest kind of impact and it's almost the definition of Rock&Roll


Ridiculous. Let's get Pat Boone and Nickelback on the list while we're at it.


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 Post subject: Re: 100 Greatest Rock Artists (under revision)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:54 pm 
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Somebody besides me, thinks that Radiohead could be higher in a possible next update?


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