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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:51 pm 
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piper wrote:
Echoes wrote:
Santana? What about Latin American rock artists?


The band Santana was formed in the United States. Carlos Santana is the only original member left, but its still a band, not a solo career.

Currently, the following Latin American artists are on the list: Sepultura (Brazil, #44), Chris De Burgh (Argentina, #98), Os Mutantes (Brazil, #150) and Cansei de Ser Sexy (CSS) (Brazil, #234)


So for you Carlos Santana is not good enough for your list?

What about the biggest latin american bands: Caifanes, Soda, Enanitos Verdes, etc.

This list is a huge disrespect for latin american rock.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 12:57 pm 
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This list from DDD is really good. At least these 30 artists should be added.

1. Soda Stereo (1982 - 1997, Argentina)
2. Café Tacuba (1989 -, Mexico)
3. Charly Garcia (born 1951 -, Argentina)
4. Caifanes (1987 - 1995, Mexico)
5. Mano Negra (1986 - 1995, France)
6. Los Fabulosos Cadillacs (1984 -, Argentina)
7. Héroes del Silencio (1985 - 1996, Spain)
8. Santana (1967 -, Mexico & U.S.A.)
9. Molotov (1995 -, Mexico)
10. Andrés Calamaro (born 1961 -, Argentina)
11. Luis Alberto Spinetta (born 1950 -, Argentina)
12. Los Prisioneros (1979 - 2006, Chile)
13. Three Souls in My Mind/El Tri (1968-1984, 1984 -, Mexico)
14. Aterciopelados (1990 -, Colombia)
15. Babasónicos (1991 -, Argentina)
16. Fito Páez (born 1963 -, Argentina)
17. Maldita Vecindad y los Hijos del Quinto Patio (1985 -, Mexico)
18. Barón Rojo (1980 -, Spain)
19. Los Jaivas (1963 -, Chile)
20. Enanitos Verdes (1979 -, Argentina)
21. Los Rodriguez (1990 - 1996, Argentina - Spain)
22. La Ley (1987 - 2005, Chile)
23. Sui Generis (1969 - 1975, Argentina)
24. Rata Blanca (1985 -, Argentina)
25. Gustavo Cerati (born 1959 -, Argentina)
26. Los Tres (1988 -, Chile)
27. Maná (1986- , Mexico)
28. Bersuit Vergarabat (1987 -, Argentina)
29. Radio Futura (1979 - 1992, Spain)
30. Zoé (1994 -, Mexico


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
So for you Carlos Santana is not good enough for your list?


Its pauldrach's list, not mine.

He usually goes for artists with international popularity. You can PM him and ask him which artists on your lists he'd include by his criteria.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:44 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
This list from DDD is really good. At least these 30 artists should be added.

I have to admit that the list is based on the overall greatness of the respective artists in the US and UK only (as it is the case for most of the other DDD lists, the Latin Rock list being one of the few exceptions). The reason for this is, that a list factoring in the greatness of an artist in every single spot on Planet Earth to a reasonable amount would be close to impossible to do. I don't consider myself capable of doing that. And since the Rock en Español movement was huge in the Spanish speaking world while being a marginal scene in the English speaking countries almost none of the artists would make the list as it has been compiled so far (Carlos Santana as a solo artist would be a possible addition but since his work with the band Santana wouldn't be included as they would count as an American artist he's not a mandatory inclusion either).


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:32 pm 
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So many thinks to say,,, first of all the Rock en Español is still huge and highly popular. Many of those bands are still playing, like Caifanes who was among the principal acts of this year´s Coachella:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD3Bh0U5xLk

As you should know, USA is full of Latin American people, so those bands are really popular over there.

Santana was a band, but for more than what, 25 or more years, it had been more about Carlos Santana. Take for example his Supernatural period. That was all about him. Carlos Santana should be in the top 15 easily (his influence over rock guitar is good enough for that).

I don’t get why you include so many artists from Jamaica and none from huge rock countries like Mexico or Argentina.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 3:48 pm 
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Rock en Español does not seem to have widespread popularity within the mainstream, or at least the first dozen bands of the ones you suggested didn't.

Carlos Santana certainly was the defining figure in the band Santana, especially considering the huge number of lineup changes the band went through. Still the band was an American band whose most important member happened to get born in Mexico.

Jamaica does well on this list because reggae has become a rock style with a very large following and also influence not just musically but also culturally. Mexican or Argentinian rock music hasn't.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2011 4:01 pm 
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Have you ever heard at least one of the bands I mentioned? I mean, do you know them?


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:09 am 
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No. And don't start posting youtube links now. That won't help.

Try to do a breakdown of the criteria between one of the artists you mentioned and one of the artists on the list. That would be a good starting point. If you refuse to do that, there's nothing I can do for you.

EDIT: Oh, I've heard Santana obviously which does not make them any more Mexican than they are.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:15 am 
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Maybe that was my mistake, I am not asking to add Santana the group, I am asking t add Carlos Santana, one of the greatest and most influential rock guitarists ever.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 10:44 am 
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Echoes wrote:
Maybe that was my mistake, I am not asking to add Santana the group, I am asking t add Carlos Santana, one of the greatest and most influential rock guitarists ever.

The list is about musical artists, not about single musicians that only were part of a group. Santana's guitar influence is obviously huge but it comes from his recordings as a member of the American group Santana. If we added single musicians as well, Carlos Santana and also Freddie Mercury (as was suggested by erikk) should definitely be on here as well. But that is not the point of the list.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:17 am 
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In the beginning yes, Santana was a group (Carlos Santana, Gregg Rolie, David Brown, Michael Shrieve, Carabello and Chepito) but for the last 25 years or so Santana has been totally about Carlos Santana. Nowadays when you say, I am going to a Santana concert, you are not thinking about Santana the band, you are thinking about Santana the musician. Same goes for his albums. My point is that right now Santana = Carlos Santana.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 2:51 pm 
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Location: Daniel Day Lewis has now a won a third Best Actin-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Its still the same band, so it doesn't matter. Even if it wasn't, would any of the stuff he's done in the last 2 decades matter?


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:52 pm 
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Sherick wrote:
Its still the same band, so it doesn't matter.
If we're being consequent, Sherick is right.

Sherick wrote:
Even if it wasn't, would any of the stuff he's done in the last 2 decades matter?
Of course it would. Why wouldn't it?


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Fri Jun 17, 2011 6:56 pm 
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Location: Daniel Day Lewis has now a won a third Best Actin-- "You think you know me..." Shit.
Enough to get him high placement amongst the top 100? Maybe it would, but I haven't heard anything notable by Santana for a long while. A few collaborations and tributes here and there, but nothing notable.


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 Post subject: Re: About 100 Greatest International Rock Artists
PostPosted: Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:41 am 
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Sherick wrote:
Its still the same band, so it doesn't matter. Even if it wasn't, would any of the stuff he's done in the last 2 decades matter?


It matters a lot.

Supernatural was released in 1999. It went 15 times platinum in the US and won 9 Grammy Awards. That album has sold more than 27 million copies worldwide.

The album, conceived by Clive Davis and A&R'd by Pete Ganbarg, was phenomenally successful, eventually selling over 27 million copies worldwide. It is the most successful album by Santana, charted in ten countries, including in the US chart, at number one. Singles "Smooth" and "Maria Maria" reached #1 in many countries.


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