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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:34 pm 
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Sampson, have I ever told you I like you? You're probably the only truly impartial person on these boards.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 3:54 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Echoes wrote:
Don’t take this the wrong way, you are one of the best posters around here, however, your lists seems to reflect that R&B > Rock.

In my opinion R&B = Rock.



R&B IS ROCK! So therefore why would you be making a distinction that somehow R&B is getting more credit than rock, which is what it is in the first place?

Fact: Rock 'n' roll is a black invention, popularized by black artists. Over the 62 years of rock, under all its terms, more than half of it has been performed by black artists, yet on every rock list on this site, except mine, white styles of rock dominate in everyway. They dominate in overall numbers. They dominate in terms of higher rankings on those lists. AND judging by the comments, complaints and suggestions made by posters the overwhelming majority, and by that I mean at LEAST 95% of all posts on rock lists, want more white artists added or moved up. In fact, there's probably a 50-1 ratio in terms of just discussion on white artists compared to black and that might even be under selling it.

So when people see Otis Redding high on a list that I make they suddenly think that position is unjustified because it doesn't fall in line with that overwhelming bias in the other direction, when in fact, it is simply the criteria doing its job. Statistically speaking it stands to reason that in a field as huge as rock that is roughly 50/50 in terms of race that the greatest of all-time would also be roughly 50/50. On this list the top 10 is 60/40 black to white, yet the Top Five is 3-2 white to black. The next ten is similar. Keep going down the list. 25 of the Top 50 are black, and that includes Hendrix, who had a 95% white audience. 47 of the Top 100 are black and I'm including two mixed race groups in that number. That's about as evenhanded as you can possibly get and I didn't TRY and do it, I wasn't even aware of it until I counted right this minute, but that's just an accurate snapshot of an art-form that has been 50/50 racially for decades. All lists should wind up roughly that way because that's what rock is and always has been and anything else that slants it so overwhelmingly in another direction is the list with credibility issues.

What you really should be doing is going to the other rock lists and using their numbers against them, like asking how on the Most Technically Skilled Rock Vocalists there are only 5 or 6 singers who are black. They won't be able to defend it in any way, shape or form. As for this list, you may not agree with it, but there's no bias to be found and the numbers back it up.

But on the whole, I'd much rather be talking music than numbers.


I don´t give a fuck about race.

I didn´t say that Redding was too high. I say that Hendrix and Redding are at the same level and they should be in the top 5. Maybe Redding at #5 and Hendrix at #6 or something like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:15 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
I say they are tie and I don´t get why Hendrix is not in the top 5 and Redding is.


Have you ever seen the Monterey Pop Festival footage of Otis Redding?

Echoes wrote:
And I agree with Clashwho, The Who (and Hendrix) should be above Springsteen.


I agree that The Who should be above Springsteen, but I don't think Hendrix belongs that high.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:31 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Echoes wrote:
I say they are tie and I don´t get why Hendrix is not in the top 5 and Redding is.


Have you ever seen the Monterey Pop Festival footage of Otis Redding?

Echoes wrote:
And I agree with Clashwho, The Who (and Hendrix) should be above Springsteen.


I agree that The Who should be above Springsteen, but I don't think Hendrix belongs that high.


Yes I have seen Redding at Monterey. Aside from James Brown concerts, it is probably the best R&B concert. I am in no way trying to diminish Redding’s work.

On the other hand, Hendrix at Monterey is, in my opinion, the Best Rock concert ever. Why they can’t be together?

I don’t think that Townshend will accept that The Who is a better live artist than Hendrix.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:31 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Have you ever seen the Monterey Pop Festival footage of Otis Redding?


Just watching it now on Youtube for the first time - absolutely sensational.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
I didn´t say that Redding was too high. I say that Hendrix and Redding are at the same level and they should be in the top 5. Maybe Redding at #5 and Hendrix at #6 or something like that.


But then you are dismissing those between them.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:38 pm 
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Georgi wrote:
ClashWho wrote:
Have you ever seen the Monterey Pop Festival footage of Otis Redding?


Just watching it now on Youtube for the first time - absolutely sensational.


:thumb:


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:39 pm 
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It's a pity there's no footage of Try A Little Tenderness.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:41 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
Yes I have seen Redding at Monterey. Aside from James Brown concerts, it is probably the best R&B concert. I am in no way trying to diminish Redding’s work.

On the other hand, Hendrix at Monterey is, in my opinion, the Best Rock concert ever. Why they can’t be together? .



Redding is a rock artist, therefore his performance at Monterey is what? The OTHER best rock concert ever, tied with Hendrix at the same venue? They're two variations of the same form of music - rock.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:43 pm 
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Georgi wrote:
It's a pity there's no footage of Try A Little Tenderness.


Actually there is. They filmed it but most prints use the montage footage of the crowd over the whole weekend from the doctumentary over the video of the entire performance. But I've seen it and I think even have it somewhere, but I can't remember where it'd be.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:45 pm 
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Sampson wrote:
Echoes wrote:
I didn´t say that Redding was too high. I say that Hendrix and Redding are at the same level and they should be in the top 5. Maybe Redding at #5 and Hendrix at #6 or something like that.


But then you are dismissing those between them.


I am not. For example, I have seen The Rolling Stones and MJ live and they are not better than Hendrix.

But enough about Hendrix.

What do you think about Nirvana? Live at Reading is one of my favorite concerts.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:50 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
I was being nice and suggesting a tie between them. However, if we look into the criteria, I think Hendrix wins in each category.

Take for example “consistancy at maintaining that high performance level over time”. He started on Monterey, he ended with this one:



Wrong. He did not end with his performance at Woodstock. His last performance was over a year later. And, no, he's not considered as consistant as Otis Redding.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
I don’t think that Townshend will accept that The Who is a better live artist than Hendrix.


Oh, I think he would. He thinks The Who kicked Hendrix's ass at the Isle of Wight festival in 1970. And if he doesn't, he should.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:57 pm 
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Echoes wrote:
I am not. For example, I have seen The Rolling Stones and MJ live and they are not better than Hendrix.


"Better" is subjective. Your mere opinion on which is better is irrelevant to this, as is my opinion.


Echoes wrote:
What do you think about Nirvana? Live at Reading is one of my favorite concerts.


What do I personally think? They were okay. I never went to one of their shows, had Cobain not offed-himself I'd have seen them on their next tour, whenever that might've been. But objectively speaking, they make the list despite having a very short resume. They do well.


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 Post subject: Re: Greatest Live Rock Artists
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2010 4:59 pm 
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ClashWho wrote:
Echoes wrote:
I don’t think that Townshend will accept that The Who is a better live artist than Hendrix.


Oh, I think he would. He thinks The Who kicked Hendrix's ass at the Isle of Wight festival in 1970. And if he doesn't, he should.


In my opinion The Who = Hendrix.


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